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kcheetah999, 2/4/2006 8:24 PM

I spun this off from the other thread, as we're starting to cover wildly different topics.


on 2/3/06 11:48 AM, Lord_Malachite at ranger_writer@yahoo.com wrote:


> On to some of KC's responses.....

> Rhonda concept sketches now? They might be fun to play with. I've made
> her extremely leggy in my writing. She just always had the build for it,
> I thought. Rhonda has a swagger as she walks that makes her the fantasy
> of choice for most of the boys in the class still seeking self-gratification.

Yeah, I see her being rather svelt and statuesque in her teens as well, with a modest but pleasing figure.

> On some of the Rhonda episodes--

> I always found a dichotomy in Rhonda. Yes, she can be this kind of bitchy girl
> with all the money, and she often plays that well. But for all her money, she
> spends the overwhelming majority of her time hanging with people who are far
> beneath her.

As you saw in "Cool Party" and "Best Friends", Rhonda has few real friends and even Nadine gets sick of her at times.

> She is accepted as one of the gang despite her posh upbringing, and even her
> best friend, Nadine, is just a normal girl in economic and social
> circumstances. This is what I feel gives Rhonda hope. Also episodes like
> "Polishing Rhonda," where in the end she socially accepts Patty as her friend.

True, but as is the way in this show, the lesson last until the closing credits start to roll. In episodes after that, she still comes off as stuck up. This is why fictioneers tend to introduce tradgety or trauma into her life, to force her out of her comfy sheltered life. And again, "Rhonda Goes Broke" shows just how easily she can revert back to her old ways at the drop of a hat.

> She changes her ways a bit. And I think that her friendships will carry more
> water as she gets older and people get more important.

Agreed, and when she hits her teens, the possibilities just multiply. We all go through a rebelious or soul searching period about that time, and she could become quite the wild child! ^__^

> In "Instant Gratification," I portray her as someone with a foot in each
> world, torn between her desire to be cradled in the lap of luxury and her
> fear of becoming a trophy wife. Her loyalty for her parents and her unyielding
> love for a boy from what to her family is from "the wrong side of the tracks."
> She can be the rich bitch, but she can also be the girl with a humongous
> heart.

Possibly, but it has to come with a reason. As Wild Bill Shakespeare once said, "The Story Is In The Telling". If a fictioneer can set up a plausible scenario for a given situation, I'll stick with it to the end. Play with the possibilities.

Lord_Malachite, 2/6/2006 4:49 AM

Sounds like we have similar ideas about Rhonda, KC. I like her "svelte and statuesque," as you so elegantly put. I wanted to maker her legs curvy and pleasing to the eye, with a rear end the boys would follow around. I left her bustline a little small but quite adequate, but I figured with the body type I'd envisioned, she'd fall over I've I made her too well endowed. Plus, with all the scenes I've done, I think I would've spent too much time with poor Arnold having to manuever around them ;)

Rhonda doesn't have a lot of real friends because of her upbringing. She's raised as though she's better than everyone else, and acts accordingly. However, she isn't always a snob. I'd say that she acts the most normally around Arnold, which is why I paired them up. Her air of superiority is nowhere to be found in "Beaned," where she and Arnold are geography buddies. Rhonda does try to kick Helga to the curb, but this is more from frustration than haughtiness. But for the most part, Rhonda hasn't really become her own person in the series, she is just the daughter of the Lloyds. I think as she gets older, and begins to realize the kind of life she will lead if she stays on this path, she will change. I cannot see Rhonda consenting to being a trophy wife. Perhaps her true test will come when she has to make sacrifices in her life. Sooner or later, time will tell.

I absolutely hate it that whenever Rhonda grows as a person, it's as though it never happened by the next episode. It's a major disconnect in the series. "Rhonda Goes Broke" makes sense, given the ending. But with episodes like "Polishing Rhonda" or "Rhonda's Glasses," it's just lazy writing that prevents Rhonda from keeping these lessons. She becomes just a stereotypical spoiled little rich girl. She deserves better than that. She isn't evil, and she's capable of being more.

Rhonda might begin to rebel against her parents in her teens, especially if they begin making major life decisions for her. If pushed, I think she will push back. Hard.

I'm never afraid to play with Rhonda. She's the only downright sexy character in my story. But she's more than that, she's a person with a mind and heart trying to overcome her less desireable qualities. She has a lot to lose, both in love and in assets. But Rhonda is still in the process of becoming herself. When she comes out of the cocoon, we'll see what she is. </FONT>

kcheetah999, 2/8/2006 4:35 AM

on 2/5/06 8:49 PM, Lord_Malachite at ranger_writer@yahoo.com wrote:

 From: Lord_Malachite 

Sounds like we have similar ideas about Rhonda, KC. I like her  "svelte and statuesque," as you so elegantly put. I wanted to make her legs curvy and pleasing to the eye, with a rear end the boys would follow around. I left her bustline a little small but quite adequate, but I figured with the body type I'd envisioned, she'd fall over. I've made her too well endowed. Plus, with all the scenes I've done, I think I would've spent too much time with poor Arnold having to manuever around them ;)


LOL! ^__^
Yeah, but as I pointed out in my essay on Rhonda, her body type in high school would pretty much be dependant on the story and her part in it. I don't Rhonda (or any of the characters for that matter) as any one thing or type of person. In one story she'll be sympathetic, another antagonistic. It's fun in fictioneering to see if you can convincingly portray her in any given situation.


Rhonda doesn't have a lot of real friends because of her upbringing. She's raised as though she's better than everyone else, and acts accordingly. However, she isn't always a snob. I'd say that she acts the most normally around Arnold, which is why I paired them up.


It comes and goes; again the whole bad writing thing.


Her air of superiority is nowhere to be found in "Beaned," where she and Arnold are geography buddies. Rhonda does try to kick Helga to the curb, but this is more from frustration than haughtiness. But for the most part, Rhonda hasn't really become her own person in the series, she is just the daughter of the Lloyds.


Very good point. Listen to her mother's phone conversation as they shop for eyeware in "Rhonda's Glasses".


I think as she gets older, and begins to realize the kind of life she will lead if she stays on this path, she will change. I cannot see Rhonda consenting to being a trophy wife. Perhaps her true test will come when she has to make sacrifices in her life. Sooner or later, time will tell.


Agreed. In her teens she could become adventurous, or academic, or artistic, or rebelious. ^___^


I absolutely hate it that whenever Rhonda grows as a person, it's as though it never happened by the next episode. It's a major disconnect in the series. "Rhonda Goes Broke" makes sense, given the ending. But with episodes like "Polishing Rhonda" or "Rhonda's Glasses," it's just lazy writing that prevents Rhonda from keeping these lessons. She becomes just a stereotypical spoiled little rich girl. She deserves better than that. She isn't evil, and she's capable of being more.


I have an entire essay about "Rhonda Goes Broke" (and accompanying fics), as I think far more is going on in that episode than we are shown... but more on that another time.


Rhonda might begin to rebel against her parents in her teens, especially if they begin making major life decisions for her. If pushed, I think she will push back. Hard.


Which is why I paired her up with the likes of Sid and Gerald.


I'm never afraid to play with Rhonda. She's the only downright sexy character in my story.


Well, she okay I guess... next to Phoebe of course... ^____^

(I'm kidding)


But she's more than that, she's a person with a mind and heart trying to overcome her less desireable qualities. She has a lot to lose, both in love and in assets. But Rhonda is still in the process of becoming herself. When she comes out of the cocoon, we'll see what she is.


That's certainly a possibility, along with many more.

As they say, the story is in the telling.
</FONT> 

Manolo, 2/9/2006 1:32 AM

Dear KC and Lord Malachite:



I already has said this at KC group, but I will say it again: Rhonda's (and everyone in the show, for that matter) is wrote like he is learning something very important, but at the end, they revert to type.



Yes, this is mandatory in a weekly cartoon (all the same next week) but this also is human condition:  I cant think of anyone who "learns" something, but still keep's acting the same old way :(



I understand your fascination with Rhonda (let's just say that I know I'm fascinated at Lord Malachite's depiction of Rhonda in "Instant Gratification") and various tales by King Cheeta, but what I'm trying to point is this: Rhonda Wellington Lloyd is one of the most fun and complex characters in the series.



What to think about a girl who knows right and wrong but is desperately seeking for attention?   Someone who is capable of sacrifice herself to be the girlfriend of the biggest loon on the school, but still has the integrity to thank him when he dumps her?  Someone who is not afraid of being beated by Big Patty, but trembles and whines and cry because is afraid to be called "a loser"?  Someone so sophisticated to make a cool party, but so unaware of the obvious fact that all the cool people of her party is extremely bored to be... with her?



Really man, Rhonda has a lot of potential as she is... please recognize this fact... but Lord Malachite, please keep with your Rhonda... is a great job you're doing!



Alberto / Number6

Lord_Malachite, 2/10/2006 4:06 AM

Sorry to have been away for a few days, curse this new schedule of mine!

Anyway, onto the good stuff.

KC:

Perhaps it's true that Rhonda can be just about anything. Some people say that she's sympathetic in my story. I think that she can be sympathetic, but you can also interpret the version I've provided as manipulative, overbearing, or just plain old-fashioned sexually frustrated (oh yes, she is!). So as you pointed out, when it comes to fanfiction, there is no shortage for degrees of Rhonda Wellington Lloyd.

You know, too many of these discussions have one thing in common--lazy writing. What bothers me so much is that the show was better than that. I'm probably opening a whole nother topic here which we can feel free to spin off, but bear with me. Now, we all know that the movie is pretty much what killed HA because it bombed big time at the box office. No need to go into that. But consider this point--the movie is not THAT bad. Yeah, it's no feather in Arnold's cap. But the HA franchise could have survived the movie--if the movie had come at the show's peak. Because it didn't come out until the summer of '02, a point where Arnold was already nearly 6 years old and fading fast, there just wasn't any saving it. My point? The show was spiraling downward BEFORE the movie. Because the writers put it on auto-pilot.

Now, back to Rhonda. ;)

In "Rhonda's Glasses," Mrs. Lloyd seems most concerned with how her daughter's need for vision enhancement will reflect upon the family. There is a certain standard that Rhonda is expected to uphold, which is probably where she gets her own expectations from. I can't recall which episode at the moment, but there is one where Rhonda takes Nadine to task about not rotating her shoes enough, and how Nadine needs "at least 3 pairs" in order to hang out with Rhonda. Deep down, I think that Rhonda wants to be like one of the regular kids--she loves the benefits of being rich, but doesn't want any of the responsibilities. Look at how badly she chokes in "Polishing Rhonda." I've always taken this as strong indication that Rhonda is going to make some very difficult choices come high school.

No matter what Rhonda may become in her teens, I very much doubt that she will be just another version of her parents. I'm just convinced that she will want more than that, whatever she decides to do with her life. We do know that Rhonda is both intelligent and artistic. She's a fine actress in "School Play" and she never seems to have any problems in school. This says a lot about her, because there's no indication that she's had special educational benefits. For all her money, she still goes to a public school--and seems rather happy there.

So when will you be bringing this fabled essay on Rhonda? I'd love to see it!

I have no problems with either a Rhonda/Sid or Rhonda/Gerald pairing. I think that she would fare well with either one, and I certainly prefer it to the more "conventional" Rhonda/Curly. I really don't see them having much in common. And while there are worse pairings, I just don't see that one going anywhere. Rhonda has better taste. Then again, there's a number of quasi-romantic situations in the series between Rhonda and Harold, they're certainly much more entertaining in "Egg Story" than Arnold and Helga bitching at each other.

Bite your tongue, man! No one is sexier than Rhonda!

The story is always in the telling. What always made HA great was that it usually boiled down to people being people. Or at the very least, Helga being Helga. But that's another topic for another thread.


Alberto:

Your description of the characters living and not learning is a tad depressing, but perhaps accurate. But if there's one person who lives by a "live and don't learn" mentaility, it's Helga. Why does she keep coming up in a post about Rhonda, anyway?

I'll take your comments as a compliment, Alberto. ;) I definitely think that Rhonda is a fun and complex character with a lot to offer, certainly more than she was ever used for. I was always disappointed that Rhonda's wealth never came into play more to affect episodes that weren't necessarily about her, but that she has the ability to help out in some way or another. Some chance to show some conflict in her.

You bring up some very good points about Rhonda. There's a dichotmy in her, much like Helga (there she is again). But what makes Rhonda interesting is that Rhonda is more subtle. There's more going on with her than meets the eye, I think, and it's shameful that all too often, she becomes a stereotype.

I promise to keep writing the Rhonda that I've come to know and love--just promise to keep reading about her. ;)

Lord Malachite

"Marriage is not a word. It's a sentence. A life sentence!"
--Arnold Short, "Instant Gratifcation."

"Love is supposed to be this unstoppable, unbreakable force. No one ever talks about how it makes you insecure and crazy."
--Helga Pataki, "The Sweet Hereafter"

"You do, of course, realize that this kind of anger can only lead to sex."
--Helga Pataki, "Instant Gratification"

kcheetah999, 2/10/2006 3:35 PM

on 2/8/06 5:32 PM, Manolo at amartinez2002222@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Manolo

> Dear KC and Lord Malachite:
>
>
> What to think about a girl who knows right and wrong but is desperately
> seeking for attention? Someone who is capable of sacrifice herself to be
> the girlfriend of the biggest loon on the school, but still has the integrity
> to thank him when he dumps her? Someone who is not afraid of being beated by
> Big Patty, but trembles and whines and cry because is afraid to be called
> "a loser"? Someone so sophisticated to make a cool party, but so unaware of
> the obvious fact that all the cool people of her party is extremely bored to
> be... with her?
>
> Really man, Rhonda has a lot of potential as she is... please recognize this
> fact... but Lord Malachite, please keep with your Rhonda... is a great job
> you're doing!
>
> Alberto / Number6


This is the onr thing that remains constant about Rhonda. When finding
herself in a new or unfamiliar circumstance, she goes through a minor
"freak-out period", after which, she gets her barings and proceeds to
dominate her new suroundings (Rhonda's Glasses, Curly's Girl, Rhonda Goes
Broke). It is this dormant strength of character that is so intriguing in
her.

kcheetah999, 2/10/2006 5:36 PM

on 2/9/06 8:06 PM, Lord_Malachite at ranger_writer@yahoo.com wrote:

From: Lord_Malachite

> Sorry to have been away for a few days, curse this new schedule of mine!
>
>
> Perhaps it's true that Rhonda can be just about anything. Some people say
> that she's sympathetic in my story. I think that she can be sympathetic, but
> you can also interpret the version I've provided as manipulative, overbearing,
> or just plain old-fashioned sexually frustrated (oh yes, she is!). So as you
> pointed out, when it comes to fanfiction, there is no shortage for degrees of
> Rhonda Wellington Lloyd.

Ooooooh, yeah! ^_^

> You know, too many of these discussions have one thing in common--lazy
> writing. What bothers me so much is that the show was better than that.
> I'm probably opening a whole nother topic here which we can feel free to spin
> off, but bear with me. Now, we all know that the movie is pretty much what
> killed HA because it bombed big time at the box office. No need to go into
> that.

Um, well it didn't kill off HA!, but it was another nail in the coffin.

> But consider this point--the movie is not THAT bad. Yeah, it's no feather
> in Arnold's cap. But the HA franchise could have survived the movie--if
> the movie had come at the show's peak. Because it didn't come out until
> the summer of '02, a point where Arnold was already nearly 6 years old and
> fading fast, there just wasn't any saving it. My point? The show was spiraling
> downward BEFORE the movie. Because the writers put it on auto-pilot.

Hmmmmm, I disagree, but I'll start a new topic on the heat death of HA!...

> Now, back to Rhonda. ;)
>
> In "Rhonda's Glasses," Mrs. Lloyd seems most concerned with how her daughter's
> need for vision enhancement will reflect upon the family. There is a certain
> standard that Rhonda is expected to uphold, which is probably where she gets
> her own expectations from. I can't recall which episode at the moment, but
> there is one where Rhonda takes Nadine to task about not rotating her shoes
> enough, and how Nadine needs "at least 3 pairs" in order to hang out with
> Rhonda.

Very Rhonda-like.

> Deep down, I think that Rhonda wants to be like one of the regular kids--
> she loves the benefits of being rich, but doesn't want any of the
> responsibilities. Look at how badly she chokes in "Polishing Rhonda."
> I've always taken this as strong indication that Rhonda is going to
> make some very difficult choices come high school.

Oh yeah! Imagine the sort of crap that her parents will preasure her into
doing in high school! Student government, honor society, cheerleading,
yearbook commitee. Grim indeed...

> No matter what Rhonda may become in her teens, I very much doubt that she
> will be just another version of her parents. I'm just convinced that she will
> want more than that, whatever she decides to do with her life. We do know that
> Rhonda is both intelligent and artistic. She's a fine actress in "School Play"
> and she never seems to have any problems in school. This says a lot about her,
> because there's no indication that she's had special educational benefits. For
> all her money, she still goes to a public school--and seems rather happy
> there.

Y'know, that's a REALLY good point! I'd forgotten that she was a fine
actress in "School Play"... Hmmmmm, I think I might have a few new story
ideas. ^___^

> So when will you be bringing this fabled essay on Rhonda? I'd love to see it!

Still making my notes, but in short, if you examine the Episode "Rhonda Goes
Broke" closely, the story as presented doesn't make sense. Instead, what you
see is a rather cruel prank played on Rhonda by her parents to show her how
good her life is. More on this some other time.

> I have no problems with either a Rhonda/Sid or Rhonda/Gerald pairing. I think
> that she would fare well with either one, and I certainly prefer it to the
> more "conventional" Rhonda/Curly. I really don't see them having much in
> common. And while there are worse pairings, I just don't see that one going
> anywhere. Rhonda has better taste.

Yeah, but I think most of the people using Rhonda/Curly are doing it more
for Curly's benefit than anything else.

> Then again, there's a number of quasi-romantic situations in the series
> between Rhonda and Harold, they're certainly much more entertaining in
> "Egg Story" than Arnold and Helga bitching at each other.

In interview Craig said that Rhonda's interest in Harold is mostly to try
and change him. He's a sort of fix-up project for her.

> Bite your tongue, man! No one is sexier than Rhonda!

WHAT?! That does it! Bikini Baby-oil Wrestling between Phoebe and Rhonda
settles this NOW! I hope your prescious Rhonda likes humble pie, because
she's getting a big slice with ice cream!!! ^_____^

> The story is always in the telling. What always made HA great was that
> it usually boiled down to people being people. Or at the very least,
> Helga being Helga. But that's another topic for another thread.
>
>
> Lord Malachite

Cool, 2/11/2006 11:14 PM

But consider this point--the movie is not THAT bad. Yeah, it's no feather
> in Arnold's cap. But the HA franchise could have survived the movie--if
> the movie had come at the show's peak. Because it didn't come out until
> the summer of '02, a point where Arnold was already nearly 6 years old and
> fading fast, there just wasn't any saving it. My point? The show was spiraling
> downward BEFORE the movie. Because the writers put it on auto-pilot.


Very true. If the movie had not been transfered over to flim for cinema, it probably would have been released sometime in 2000/2001, maybe. A movie should have really came out in 1999 - that's where HA! was at its peak in the third season. But c'mon, it takes a while to make a movie, and there was a mess in re-writes and switching things between the two movies, the neighborhood and TJM. Craig said himself he hated when the movie came out (amongst all the heavy summer competition), and he said movie stuff like this always takes ages to get thru.



WHAT?! That does it! Bikini Baby-oil Wrestling between Phoebe and Rhonda
settles this NOW! I hope your prescious Rhonda likes humble pie, because
she's getting a big slice with ice cream!!! ^_____^

Heh-he. Sounds like a good picture!



Okay, so - this week of February 4-11 has shattered all previous records the site ever held. 80 posts in one week smashed to old record of 60. Moreover, I was thrown when I checked my hit counter. Since AR began, I have been writing down the hit numbers every weekend. So I have like three pieces of lined paper front and back with hit counter readings and dates. I usually try and check this stuff every Saturday, like today, and I checked the counter and did a double take! A week ago, 37,871. Today, 38,300?! That's almost 430 hits in a week! The week before that of Jan 28-Feb 4 was 261. Before that, it was only 147! Before that, 137! Look at what happened in four weeks! All in sync with the message posts. The most this site ever got was a while back when the site was still getting updated every month, with 303 hits or something. I can't believe the amount of traffic that has suddnely come with all the message baord activity. Perhaps putting the hompage graphics back online did wonders for its appeal?



Stephen

Manolo, 2/13/2006 1:32 PM

Dear King Cheeta:



I must confess that I also I'm anxious to see the essay about Rhonda.  I remember to have some notes about Rhonda from the yahoo group you get.



You could say that Rhonda "dominates" her surroundings, after all, in "Polishing Rhonda, She DID get to speak in the graduation.  But in "Cool Party" she was humiliated to confess herself  "a geek", and I remember that very episode she said: "Tonight I will be geek, but tomorrow I will be cool again".



I think the "dormant strength of character" is not so dormant:  I see Rhonda as a great human being trying desperately to become a stereotype.  Rhonda is capable to overcome her conformism and do the right thing.  Who among us could say the same thing?

Greenorbs2, 2/14/2006 4:23 AM

This isn't a reply to the "Rhonda" post in particular, but also to a few responses addressed toward me. On with the show:



CK: I rather find the idea of a Phoebe/Curly coupling delectable, heh heh heh! Being as I happened to browse Borders this weekend, I ordered the only four books available(still in print) in the HA! series which included "Arnold's E-Files". There were less than a handful left. Never did I express my own personal opinon of Brainy as being stupid. In fact, I think he's far from it, possibly even devious to a point. Perhaps this Sat. when my shipment arrives at the store, I'll be enlightened? As far as pairing goes, I believe we all write each HA! character as we individually perceive him/her. With that comes our own personal desire to create such a character as we would like to see him/her develop. This is what makes each ff author unique.



 You're absolutely right. HA! only developed into Helga's obsession for Arnold as the series continued. I have to agree with Stephen, Season 3 was probably the best. No goody goody Arnold, and no overbearing Helga.



One more thing, I've visited your site, and am thinking of requesting(commissioned) some art work. You work wonders. Oh, and I've seen Tronkan's site. Incredible stuff!



LM: So, you've fallen in love with your portrayal of Rhonda's character, eh? Read the above, and I think that explains it. Perhaps, maybe this is the ideal woman you're searching for yourself, eh? Then again, being a writer, we have to think on all levels.



Um...yeah, I really don't like to write a "shallow" character. If I've written a character only 'surface wise" than I'll usually come back to that person. If you can believe it, I've written a certain so called "shallow" character with immense emotion in "I'm Gonna Be Strong", but most people don't like that songfic. Gee I don't know why? 



Anyway, I could go on and on about Rhonda being just as or even more so complex than Helga, but I won't. You've already covered it here in this post. Come to think of it, almost every character in HA! struggles with who they truly are and who they'd really like to be.

 

Stephen: What I get out of the HA! movie ending is Arnold too freaked out to reflect on what has happened between he and Helga. He wants to get the hell out of there. He'll think on the matter later. Just my opinion.



Manalo: So, you wanna know who Gerald's wife is, eh? I haven't decide yet! Ha! Ha! Ha!



-Jae-



"...Uh, are you sick or something? I know it's hot on this bus, but by the color of your face, you look WAY overheated man." His comment was followed by an uproar of spasmodic laughter from behind our seat, but Helga ignored it. -Blue Oceans

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